Thanks for your efforts on this Doug. Your time and talent is a huge blessing to all of us who have kids in the school. Thank you for sacrificing your time to help sort out why we are failing as a district.
You're welcome. I know from my own experience that parents just don't have time to do the kind of research needed for this.
I don't think I've found anything that says we're failing as a district. I think I've helped make clearer why the heating system is failing, and in that process, I've turned up a failure to publically document School Board meetings.
I appreciate your candor , I know that the board and administration have the best intent. Unfortunately they are in a position of not knowing what they don’t know. And as a community we need to get the proper people in the right positions to succeed. It’s not personal it’s what’s best for the greater good. They are good people with good intention.
Yes, I don't think anyone can be faulted on intent. I don't think anyone runs for School Board or wants to manage schools because they're fascinated by HVAC issues.
Well said ..Transparency has to be in place..missing minutes? As a teacher we HAD to keep and submit minutes ..these missing meetings are obviously a way of covering tracks and buying time. No different than lying. Let's keep on Nottingham to produce all the above requests. Maybe a letter/petition sighed by hundreds of concerned citizens will help. As a resident for almost fifty years these issues are utmost concerning. Thank you for your time
Normally, the school board clerk is responsible for making sure meeting minutes are posted and available for public viewing within 5 business days for public meetings and within 72 hours for non-public meetings (unless minutes are sealed).
I agree. It's black and white. I hope there is some accountability for those people who are charged with these responsibilities ..thank you for your time..
Another great investigation. So it now appears that Palmer did inform the school board (January 2023) that they do not and are not responsible for glycol and water quality issues related to the heating system. So what action did the school board take?
Clearly this is a time when we will all need to work together to identify root cause and support corrective action. I think the report from EEI provides good insightful and helpful; let's thank whomever had the insight to suggest getting that report. Perhaps I'm missing it, have there been any recommendations to resolve the potential freeze point(s) in the air handler area(s) that are forcing the use of glycol? Seems to me this is root technical cause. As for Palmer and Sicard, they have had a good reputation in the past, and they do react when issues arise. However, we experienced increased costs and several quality issues with the inspection and maintenance of our 7500 sq ft office/warehouse to the extent we went out to bid last year and moved to a different supplier. Our builder, who had also introduced us to Palmer and Sicard, is also using a different supplier. Given these experiences and the EEI insights, my opinion is that the maintenance should be put out to bid. This issue affects everyone in town, be it parents, caregivers, employers or taxpayers. We have all seen the attacks on social media, mostly misguided in my opinion, and mostly out of anger/frustration due a lack of control. I get it. But let's recognize that lashing out doesn't help, and working to expose failures to place blame doesn't help, and spending energy trying to find scapegoat(s) doesn't help. We already have a big black eye on the town side over this kind of wrongly motivated behavior. You can help by balancing your reporting - I don't quite care about the witch hunt, that just stokes the anger and does nothing but create ill will - I care about solutions. I've done some of my own research -- we have a top flight superintendent who has a great track record prior to joining Nottingham and likely has contacts and relationships that can help. We have a board whose expertise is in other areas so they need help. We have people in town experienced with glycol and plumbing issues. We have a report. We have experience, outside the school, with the maintenance contractor. How about we seek to join all this together and find a solution path?
As in most modern systems, if there is a major failure, it's not caused by a single thing, but a collection or series of mistakes. These are difficult to diagnose.
Yes, the report from EEI was enlightening. Like you, EEI thought that the long-term solution was to get rid of the need for glycol. They presented a few ideas for achieving this objective - none cheap, none fast, none that can be done before summer.
There's not enough information to draw conclusions yet. All I have are hypotheses. A few days ago, my hypothesis was that there was a maintenance failure on the part of Palmer & Sicard, because the school's published maintenance plan said P&S were responsible for the glycol. However, the new evidence I turned up from reviewing years of minutes says that P&S clearly told the board that they were not responsible for this - and at a date months before the maintenance plan was published. My current hypothesis is that there has been a long-standing misunderstanding about glycol maintenance and that it went many years without monitoring or maintenance. The misunderstanding is that the school thought P&S was responsible for maintenance work that P&S is clear about that they do not do and do not take responsibility for. "Maintenance" was (erroneously) a single item from the perspective of the school and two items from the perspective of P&S. Based on what I've been able to turn up, my earlier hypotheses looks incorrect. P&S is not responsible for this situation. We'll see whether my new hypothesis correct when my right-to-know request on this subject is fulfilled.
Yes, there are hot-heads on social media and one of the consequences of my turning up any mistake is that the bad news feeds their negativity and their non-constructive behaviors. As for "balancing my reporting" what is it that I am to use as balance? I'm one guy, doing this as volunteer public service, who sometimes can get his wife to review articles before they are published for her input about anything that doesn't seem right - a task she has no experience or training in. It's not like my step-father had in the glory days of local investigative journalism where he had a staff of professional editors counseling him and ultimately controlling what got published.
I agree that the blame game typically produces counter-productive results. However, if there is a defined responsibility X that person Y is responsible for, and there is a failure on X, it seems to me that this should be pointed out. In this case, there's a responsibility for minutes to be published. As this is a task that is so fundamental it is required by statute, it must be in somebody's job description. There has been a failure here. Someone who wants to research the board's meetings should be able to readily obtain the minutes of those meetings. I think it is appropriate to draw attention to this.
The glycol issue is more complicated than this. I am unable to identify any one person who has a core responsibility over this. The problem and the decision structures associated with the problem predate the current Superintendent, who I doubt was hired for her HVAC expertise.
As far as I can tell, the near-term actions are to reduce the acidity of the water and to replace it as soon as possible. Given the cascading failures, I suspect that this will not be enough. I am concerned that the pipe damage is severe, and that there's a big-ticket repair bill in our future that we cannot now do anything to avert it.
I think you can help by pointing out some of the positives that can lead to solving the problem, such as superintendent experience, a call for help for the school board, the possibility of expertise in town,etc as I did above. I really think this needs not to turn into another drama laced and personal destruction thing like happened with the town issue. The better qualities of people are needed at this time. There's plenty of time later to figure out leadership issues that have placed us in this position.
I am not aware that our Superintendent has HVAC experience. I don't think we hired the Superintendent for HVAC experience. The cause of the problem appears to predate the hiring of the Superintendent. I suspect that the key mistake is far in the past. The complaints I have heard about the Superintendent, but have not reported on, concern the letters she has sent to parents.
I don't know. I just know that there used to be many years of videos of School Board meetings on Youtube, but when I tried to find that January 2023 meeting where Palmer & Sicard presented, it was not there, nor were any of the older videos there.
After looking at the youtube channel it appears that the channel you linked to was created December of 2023. Was there a new youtube channel created and an old one eliminated I wonder?
Possibly the meetings were deleted on purpose because certain things were said that they would now be accountable for? I don't think it's innocent... with the history of the administration..
Thanks for your efforts on this Doug. Your time and talent is a huge blessing to all of us who have kids in the school. Thank you for sacrificing your time to help sort out why we are failing as a district.
You're welcome. I know from my own experience that parents just don't have time to do the kind of research needed for this.
I don't think I've found anything that says we're failing as a district. I think I've helped make clearer why the heating system is failing, and in that process, I've turned up a failure to publically document School Board meetings.
I appreciate your candor , I know that the board and administration have the best intent. Unfortunately they are in a position of not knowing what they don’t know. And as a community we need to get the proper people in the right positions to succeed. It’s not personal it’s what’s best for the greater good. They are good people with good intention.
Yes, I don't think anyone can be faulted on intent. I don't think anyone runs for School Board or wants to manage schools because they're fascinated by HVAC issues.
Well said ..Transparency has to be in place..missing minutes? As a teacher we HAD to keep and submit minutes ..these missing meetings are obviously a way of covering tracks and buying time. No different than lying. Let's keep on Nottingham to produce all the above requests. Maybe a letter/petition sighed by hundreds of concerned citizens will help. As a resident for almost fifty years these issues are utmost concerning. Thank you for your time
Normally, the school board clerk is responsible for making sure meeting minutes are posted and available for public viewing within 5 business days for public meetings and within 72 hours for non-public meetings (unless minutes are sealed).
I agree. It's black and white. I hope there is some accountability for those people who are charged with these responsibilities ..thank you for your time..
Another great investigation. So it now appears that Palmer did inform the school board (January 2023) that they do not and are not responsible for glycol and water quality issues related to the heating system. So what action did the school board take?
You nailed the important question. About that, I don't have an answer - yet.
Hi Doug,
Clearly this is a time when we will all need to work together to identify root cause and support corrective action. I think the report from EEI provides good insightful and helpful; let's thank whomever had the insight to suggest getting that report. Perhaps I'm missing it, have there been any recommendations to resolve the potential freeze point(s) in the air handler area(s) that are forcing the use of glycol? Seems to me this is root technical cause. As for Palmer and Sicard, they have had a good reputation in the past, and they do react when issues arise. However, we experienced increased costs and several quality issues with the inspection and maintenance of our 7500 sq ft office/warehouse to the extent we went out to bid last year and moved to a different supplier. Our builder, who had also introduced us to Palmer and Sicard, is also using a different supplier. Given these experiences and the EEI insights, my opinion is that the maintenance should be put out to bid. This issue affects everyone in town, be it parents, caregivers, employers or taxpayers. We have all seen the attacks on social media, mostly misguided in my opinion, and mostly out of anger/frustration due a lack of control. I get it. But let's recognize that lashing out doesn't help, and working to expose failures to place blame doesn't help, and spending energy trying to find scapegoat(s) doesn't help. We already have a big black eye on the town side over this kind of wrongly motivated behavior. You can help by balancing your reporting - I don't quite care about the witch hunt, that just stokes the anger and does nothing but create ill will - I care about solutions. I've done some of my own research -- we have a top flight superintendent who has a great track record prior to joining Nottingham and likely has contacts and relationships that can help. We have a board whose expertise is in other areas so they need help. We have people in town experienced with glycol and plumbing issues. We have a report. We have experience, outside the school, with the maintenance contractor. How about we seek to join all this together and find a solution path?
As in most modern systems, if there is a major failure, it's not caused by a single thing, but a collection or series of mistakes. These are difficult to diagnose.
Yes, the report from EEI was enlightening. Like you, EEI thought that the long-term solution was to get rid of the need for glycol. They presented a few ideas for achieving this objective - none cheap, none fast, none that can be done before summer.
There's not enough information to draw conclusions yet. All I have are hypotheses. A few days ago, my hypothesis was that there was a maintenance failure on the part of Palmer & Sicard, because the school's published maintenance plan said P&S were responsible for the glycol. However, the new evidence I turned up from reviewing years of minutes says that P&S clearly told the board that they were not responsible for this - and at a date months before the maintenance plan was published. My current hypothesis is that there has been a long-standing misunderstanding about glycol maintenance and that it went many years without monitoring or maintenance. The misunderstanding is that the school thought P&S was responsible for maintenance work that P&S is clear about that they do not do and do not take responsibility for. "Maintenance" was (erroneously) a single item from the perspective of the school and two items from the perspective of P&S. Based on what I've been able to turn up, my earlier hypotheses looks incorrect. P&S is not responsible for this situation. We'll see whether my new hypothesis correct when my right-to-know request on this subject is fulfilled.
Yes, there are hot-heads on social media and one of the consequences of my turning up any mistake is that the bad news feeds their negativity and their non-constructive behaviors. As for "balancing my reporting" what is it that I am to use as balance? I'm one guy, doing this as volunteer public service, who sometimes can get his wife to review articles before they are published for her input about anything that doesn't seem right - a task she has no experience or training in. It's not like my step-father had in the glory days of local investigative journalism where he had a staff of professional editors counseling him and ultimately controlling what got published.
I agree that the blame game typically produces counter-productive results. However, if there is a defined responsibility X that person Y is responsible for, and there is a failure on X, it seems to me that this should be pointed out. In this case, there's a responsibility for minutes to be published. As this is a task that is so fundamental it is required by statute, it must be in somebody's job description. There has been a failure here. Someone who wants to research the board's meetings should be able to readily obtain the minutes of those meetings. I think it is appropriate to draw attention to this.
The glycol issue is more complicated than this. I am unable to identify any one person who has a core responsibility over this. The problem and the decision structures associated with the problem predate the current Superintendent, who I doubt was hired for her HVAC expertise.
As far as I can tell, the near-term actions are to reduce the acidity of the water and to replace it as soon as possible. Given the cascading failures, I suspect that this will not be enough. I am concerned that the pipe damage is severe, and that there's a big-ticket repair bill in our future that we cannot now do anything to avert it.
I think you can help by pointing out some of the positives that can lead to solving the problem, such as superintendent experience, a call for help for the school board, the possibility of expertise in town,etc as I did above. I really think this needs not to turn into another drama laced and personal destruction thing like happened with the town issue. The better qualities of people are needed at this time. There's plenty of time later to figure out leadership issues that have placed us in this position.
I am not aware that our Superintendent has HVAC experience. I don't think we hired the Superintendent for HVAC experience. The cause of the problem appears to predate the hiring of the Superintendent. I suspect that the key mistake is far in the past. The complaints I have heard about the Superintendent, but have not reported on, concern the letters she has sent to parents.
Why would the meetings be deleted from youtube? That seems strange, but could be innocent.
I don't know. I just know that there used to be many years of videos of School Board meetings on Youtube, but when I tried to find that January 2023 meeting where Palmer & Sicard presented, it was not there, nor were any of the older videos there.
After looking at the youtube channel it appears that the channel you linked to was created December of 2023. Was there a new youtube channel created and an old one eliminated I wonder?
Yes, that seems that it might be the case.
Possibly the meetings were deleted on purpose because certain things were said that they would now be accountable for? I don't think it's innocent... with the history of the administration..
The Board's non-compliance with the law bespeaks at least incompetence, if not coverup.
Both it seems. We must have had electric from 1975 through 80s in Nottingham . We never missed a day of school due to heat, leaks..etc..
They should be fired!